Comments on: iWork 08 and support for Open XML http://www.bioneural.net/feeder/?FeederAction=clicked&feed=Comments+on+Articles+%28RSS2%29&seed=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.bioneural.net%2F2007%2F08%2F11%2Fiwork-08-and-support-for-open-xml%2F%23comment-&seed_title=iWork+08+and+support+for+Open+XML bioneural.net is for stuff worth sharing: commentary by Bruce McKenzie. Major topics covered are gadgets, informatics, Internet, Mac, mobile, musings, New Zealand, photography, Project Koru, quicklinks, rant, rave, travel and Windows Mon, 15 Mar 2010 01:49:17 +0000 hourly 1 By: iWork '08 supports OpenXML - Notes2Self.net http://www.bioneural.net/feeder/?FeederAction=clicked&feed=Comments+on+Articles+%28RSS2%29&seed=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.bioneural.net%2F2007%2F08%2F11%2Fiwork-08-and-support-for-open-xml%2F%23comment-76635&seed_title=iWork+08+and+support+for+Open+XML/comment-page-1/#comment-76635 iWork '08 supports OpenXML - Notes2Self.net Fri, 18 Apr 2008 00:50:02 +0000 http://www.bioneural.net/2007/08/11/iwork-08-and-support-for-open-xml/#comment-76635 [...] high fidelity OpenXML readers. All goodness. Except when Bruce McKenzie tried to use it he wasn't able to open some sample OpenXML files provided on [...] [...] high fidelity OpenXML readers. All goodness. Except when Bruce McKenzie tried to use it he wasn't able to open some sample OpenXML files provided on [...]

]]> By: Bruce http://www.bioneural.net/feeder/?FeederAction=clicked&feed=Comments+on+Articles+%28RSS2%29&seed=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.bioneural.net%2F2007%2F08%2F11%2Fiwork-08-and-support-for-open-xml%2F%23comment-75752&seed_title=iWork+08+and+support+for+Open+XML/comment-page-1/#comment-75752 Bruce Wed, 15 Aug 2007 09:35:13 +0000 http://www.bioneural.net/2007/08/11/iwork-08-and-support-for-open-xml/#comment-75752 <p>Thanks Doug for updating the sample files. iWork 08 was able to open these without complaint—although they're so simple it's difficult to get a feel for how well iWork is doing, v the Office Converter. It might also be a good idea to include screen caputres in the download showing what the original in Office 2007 looks like, as a basis for comparison (this would make even more sense if you included more complex sample files). As I note above iWork seems to do a superior job in rendering complex documents (compare the screen captures when you click the thumbnails above).</p> Thanks Doug for updating the sample files. iWork 08 was able to open these without complaint—although they're so simple it's difficult to get a feel for how well iWork is doing, v the Office Converter. It might also be a good idea to include screen caputres in the download showing what the original in Office 2007 looks like, as a basis for comparison (this would make even more sense if you included more complex sample files). As I note above iWork seems to do a superior job in rendering complex documents (compare the screen captures when you click the thumbnails above).

]]> By: Doug Mahugh http://www.bioneural.net/feeder/?FeederAction=clicked&feed=Comments+on+Articles+%28RSS2%29&seed=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.bioneural.net%2F2007%2F08%2F11%2Fiwork-08-and-support-for-open-xml%2F%23comment-75751&seed_title=iWork+08+and+support+for+Open+XML/comment-page-1/#comment-75751 Doug Mahugh Wed, 15 Aug 2007 07:34:08 +0000 http://www.bioneural.net/2007/08/11/iwork-08-and-support-for-open-xml/#comment-75751 <p>Bruce, you're exactly right when you say "I can only assume this means the sample files don't reflect the final Ecma-approved Open XML standard." Those sample files were uploaded on March 19, 2006 (a few days before the OpenXMLDeveloper site went live, actually), and as it says on that <a href="http://openxmldeveloper.org/articles/OpenXMLsamples.aspx">page</a> they were created with Office 2007 Beta 1 Tech Refresh.</p> <p>I've posted updated versions of those files <a href="http://openxmldeveloper.org/articles/SampleDocsAugust2007.aspx">here</a>.</p> <p>I left the old files on that other page as well, for anyone who's interested in looking closely at the differences. If you take a look at the parts inside the old versions and the new ones with a ZIP tool, you'll see many differences.</p> <p>For example, the WordprocessingML namespace in the old samples was http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/wordprocessingml/2006/2/main -- that 2006/2 indicates it was the February 2006 working version of that schema. Namespaces and many other details changed during those final months of the Ecma process. Another example I just happened to notice: in the shared-strings part (in the spreadsheet sample), the "sstItem" element is renamed to "si" in the latest version.</p> <p>One other thing you might be interested to know is that Office always supported at least one prior version as it went through the various beta releases, which made it possible for people to migrate their content forward as changes occurred in the Ecma process. But since those samples were multiple versions ago, the RTM version of Office doesn't open them any longer.</p> <p>Doug</p> Bruce, you're exactly right when you say "I can only assume this means the sample files don't reflect the final Ecma-approved Open XML standard." Those sample files were uploaded on March 19, 2006 (a few days before the OpenXMLDeveloper site went live, actually), and as it says on that page they were created with Office 2007 Beta 1 Tech Refresh.

I've posted updated versions of those files here.

I left the old files on that other page as well, for anyone who's interested in looking closely at the differences. If you take a look at the parts inside the old versions and the new ones with a ZIP tool, you'll see many differences.

For example, the WordprocessingML namespace in the old samples was http://schemas.openxmlformats.org/wordprocessingml/2006/2/main -- that 2006/2 indicates it was the February 2006 working version of that schema. Namespaces and many other details changed during those final months of the Ecma process. Another example I just happened to notice: in the shared-strings part (in the spreadsheet sample), the "sstItem" element is renamed to "si" in the latest version.

One other thing you might be interested to know is that Office always supported at least one prior version as it went through the various beta releases, which made it possible for people to migrate their content forward as changes occurred in the Ecma process. But since those samples were multiple versions ago, the RTM version of Office doesn't open them any longer.

Doug

]]> By: Bruce http://www.bioneural.net/feeder/?FeederAction=clicked&feed=Comments+on+Articles+%28RSS2%29&seed=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.bioneural.net%2F2007%2F08%2F11%2Fiwork-08-and-support-for-open-xml%2F%23comment-75746&seed_title=iWork+08+and+support+for+Open+XML/comment-page-1/#comment-75746 Bruce Wed, 15 Aug 2007 04:28:19 +0000 http://www.bioneural.net/2007/08/11/iwork-08-and-support-for-open-xml/#comment-75746 <p>Stephen, try opening the .docx files in the "04-WordprocessingML" folder. For me Pages quits unexpectedly almost every time. Numbers choked on a couple of files in "07A-SpreadsheetML". Keynotes says "Minimal (empty).pptx" in the "08-PresentationML" set is not valid (Office Converter didn't like this either).</p> Stephen, try opening the .docx files in the "04-WordprocessingML" folder. For me Pages quits unexpectedly almost every time. Numbers choked on a couple of files in "07A-SpreadsheetML". Keynotes says "Minimal (empty).pptx" in the "08-PresentationML" set is not valid (Office Converter didn't like this either).

]]> By: Stephen http://www.bioneural.net/feeder/?FeederAction=clicked&feed=Comments+on+Articles+%28RSS2%29&seed=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.bioneural.net%2F2007%2F08%2F11%2Fiwork-08-and-support-for-open-xml%2F%23comment-75745&seed_title=iWork+08+and+support+for+Open+XML/comment-page-1/#comment-75745 Stephen Tue, 14 Aug 2007 23:37:11 +0000 http://www.bioneural.net/2007/08/11/iwork-08-and-support-for-open-xml/#comment-75745 <p>Which files are causing iWork to crash Bruce? I opened quite a few of them without any problems (.docx and .pptx) on a Mac Pro.</p> <p>Regarding your point about Microsoft's beta converters ... I guess that this demonstrates why OpenXML is a good thing - if the MacOffice guys don't do a good job they'll see their market move to competitive products like iWork.</p> Which files are causing iWork to crash Bruce? I opened quite a few of them without any problems (.docx and .pptx) on a Mac Pro.

Regarding your point about Microsoft's beta converters ... I guess that this demonstrates why OpenXML is a good thing - if the MacOffice guys don't do a good job they'll see their market move to competitive products like iWork.

]]> By: Bruce http://www.bioneural.net/feeder/?FeederAction=clicked&feed=Comments+on+Articles+%28RSS2%29&seed=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.bioneural.net%2F2007%2F08%2F11%2Fiwork-08-and-support-for-open-xml%2F%23comment-75744&seed_title=iWork+08+and+support+for+Open+XML/comment-page-1/#comment-75744 Bruce Tue, 14 Aug 2007 23:26:48 +0000 http://www.bioneural.net/2007/08/11/iwork-08-and-support-for-open-xml/#comment-75744 <p>Stephen, thanks for picking up on that. It's a good idea for your collegue at Microsoft to update the sample files, since Google will likely lead others to them who are keen to put iWork's OOXML compatibility to the test. </p> <p>As I noted in my update above, however, I did find samples on the OpenXML/ODF Translator Add-in for Office project which opened fine—iWork did a better job than your Open XML File Format Converter for Mac 0.2. Granted it's a beta, but I wasn't expecting it to do such an inferior job. I got variable results using the Converter and iWork to open the sample files on Doug's page. The Converter was less prone to recognize some files than iWork, but iWork was prone to crashing on a number of them. </p> <p>I get the impression OOXML isn't quite ready for prime time.</p> Stephen, thanks for picking up on that. It's a good idea for your collegue at Microsoft to update the sample files, since Google will likely lead others to them who are keen to put iWork's OOXML compatibility to the test.

As I noted in my update above, however, I did find samples on the OpenXML/ODF Translator Add-in for Office project which opened fine—iWork did a better job than your Open XML File Format Converter for Mac 0.2. Granted it's a beta, but I wasn't expecting it to do such an inferior job. I got variable results using the Converter and iWork to open the sample files on Doug's page. The Converter was less prone to recognize some files than iWork, but iWork was prone to crashing on a number of them.

I get the impression OOXML isn't quite ready for prime time.

]]> By: Stephen http://www.bioneural.net/feeder/?FeederAction=clicked&feed=Comments+on+Articles+%28RSS2%29&seed=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.bioneural.net%2F2007%2F08%2F11%2Fiwork-08-and-support-for-open-xml%2F%23comment-75743&seed_title=iWork+08+and+support+for+Open+XML/comment-page-1/#comment-75743 Stephen Tue, 14 Aug 2007 22:58:07 +0000 http://www.bioneural.net/2007/08/11/iwork-08-and-support-for-open-xml/#comment-75743 <p>Bruce the problem is due to the fact that the files you found on the OpenXML developer web site were from mid 2006 and were created in a pre-release version of Word 2007. The file format changed to reflect the changes made by Ecma TC45.</p> <p>I've flagged this to Doug Mahugh who posted the files, and I've blogged about it <a href="http://notes2self.net/archive/2007/08/14/iwork-08-supports-openxml.aspx">here</a>.</p> <p>So, our bad for not updating the files, and not Apple's fault at all. I did a few tests and iWork reads OpenXML files fine. You can find a few .docx and .pptx files <a href="http://blogs.msdn.com/dmahugh/archive/2007/08/10/developer-workshop-content.aspx">here</a>.</p> <p>Regards</p> <p>Stephen</p> Bruce the problem is due to the fact that the files you found on the OpenXML developer web site were from mid 2006 and were created in a pre-release version of Word 2007. The file format changed to reflect the changes made by Ecma TC45.

I've flagged this to Doug Mahugh who posted the files, and I've blogged about it here.

So, our bad for not updating the files, and not Apple's fault at all. I did a few tests and iWork reads OpenXML files fine. You can find a few .docx and .pptx files here.

Regards

Stephen

]]> By: Bruce http://www.bioneural.net/feeder/?FeederAction=clicked&feed=Comments+on+Articles+%28RSS2%29&seed=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.bioneural.net%2F2007%2F08%2F11%2Fiwork-08-and-support-for-open-xml%2F%23comment-75736&seed_title=iWork+08+and+support+for+Open+XML/comment-page-1/#comment-75736 Bruce Tue, 14 Aug 2007 09:45:31 +0000 http://www.bioneural.net/2007/08/11/iwork-08-and-support-for-open-xml/#comment-75736 <p>I guess read/write is something that could be introduced in an update, optimus. Fully supporting OOXML is realistically the only way Apple can compete in an Office-dominated market. It's odd, however, that they don't include support for ODF. Afterall, that is the ISO standard and I gather is favoured by some governments... since Office ignores it, you'd think this would be one area where Apple could take the initiative and score a point over Microsoft.</p> I guess read/write is something that could be introduced in an update, optimus. Fully supporting OOXML is realistically the only way Apple can compete in an Office-dominated market. It's odd, however, that they don't include support for ODF. Afterall, that is the ISO standard and I gather is favoured by some governments... since Office ignores it, you'd think this would be one area where Apple could take the initiative and score a point over Microsoft.

]]> By: optimus http://www.bioneural.net/feeder/?FeederAction=clicked&feed=Comments+on+Articles+%28RSS2%29&seed=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.bioneural.net%2F2007%2F08%2F11%2Fiwork-08-and-support-for-open-xml%2F%23comment-75726&seed_title=iWork+08+and+support+for+Open+XML/comment-page-1/#comment-75726 optimus Mon, 13 Aug 2007 18:41:37 +0000 http://www.bioneural.net/2007/08/11/iwork-08-and-support-for-open-xml/#comment-75726 <p>I'm tremendously confused as to Apple's iWork strategy. Microsoft has delayed (yet again!) the ship date on their Office 2008. Apple clearly beat MS to the punch on DocX (OOXML) support -- but read-only!</p> <p>If I had full read-write OOXML, I could play easily with my PC-user Office 2008 officemates, and wipe Office 2004's sluggish ass clear off my Macbook. Why doesn't Apple want this to happen?</p> I'm tremendously confused as to Apple's iWork strategy. Microsoft has delayed (yet again!) the ship date on their Office 2008. Apple clearly beat MS to the punch on DocX (OOXML) support -- but read-only!

If I had full read-write OOXML, I could play easily with my PC-user Office 2008 officemates, and wipe Office 2004's sluggish ass clear off my Macbook. Why doesn't Apple want this to happen?

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