Comments on: China's history and ancient capital http://www.bioneural.net/feeder/?FeederAction=clicked&feed=Comments+on+Articles+%28RSS2%29&seed=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.bioneural.net%2F2006%2F10%2F20%2Fchinas-history-and-ancient-capital%2F%23comment-&seed_title=China%26%23039%3Bs+history+and+ancient+capital bioneural.net is for stuff worth sharing: commentary by Bruce McKenzie. Major topics covered are gadgets, informatics, Internet, Mac, mobile, musings, New Zealand, photography, Project Koru, quicklinks, rant, rave, travel and Windows Wed, 17 Mar 2010 05:52:53 +0000 hourly 1 By: Gavrielle http://www.bioneural.net/feeder/?FeederAction=clicked&feed=Comments+on+Articles+%28RSS2%29&seed=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.bioneural.net%2F2006%2F10%2F20%2Fchinas-history-and-ancient-capital%2F%23comment-76884&seed_title=China%26%23039%3Bs+history+and+ancient+capital/comment-page-1/#comment-76884 Gavrielle Fri, 22 Aug 2008 06:39:28 +0000 http://www.bioneural.net/2006/10/20/chinas-history-and-ancient-capital/#comment-76884 Thanks Bruce - very good advice! Thanks Bruce - very good advice!

]]> By: Bruce http://www.bioneural.net/feeder/?FeederAction=clicked&feed=Comments+on+Articles+%28RSS2%29&seed=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.bioneural.net%2F2006%2F10%2F20%2Fchinas-history-and-ancient-capital%2F%23comment-76883&seed_title=China%26%23039%3Bs+history+and+ancient+capital/comment-page-1/#comment-76883 Bruce Thu, 21 Aug 2008 09:23:44 +0000 http://www.bioneural.net/2006/10/20/chinas-history-and-ancient-capital/#comment-76883 Kia ora Gavrielle! We spoke with people on other tours (British, German) who were having the same experience re factory visits. Our understanding was that the local tour guides were not well paid, and the factory visits were primarily a way of supplementing their income (we were typically issued with tickets to present with any purchase, so the guide could claim her commission). The CTS itinerary was good; it was just that they didn't <em>disclose</em> the pre-planned visits or their nature up-front that annoyed us. Plus, we had limited time at some locations so as to fit in a factory visit! And that's the problem—the visits will be on the way to/ from somewhere you'll want to be, so unless you leave the bus and make your own transport arrangements (which would understandably concern the guide), you've no choice about the factory visits. As for food it was OK, although the "tourist standard" fare was repetitive. Again, transport was often provided, and I think without local knowledge you would have to be the adventurous (and risk-taking) type to go off on your own at night. If you did want to sort your own transport to avoid factories, take a gamble with the menus in non-touristic restaurants, and avoid benefiting from the considerable queue-jumping/ negotiating skills of the tour guide, I'd have to ask what you were doing on an organized tour. I think the best advice I can give you is to be <em>mentally prepared</em> for the factory visits (we weren't), and try to be philosophic about the group "spreading the wealth" (even if you don't shop yourself). Most of the visits did have an educational component at the start too, and these can be worthwhile; we tended to peel off from the group at that point to linger outside (with 1 or 2 other like-minded folk). I guess you could also argue that commerce is such a vital aspect of China on the world stage that, if you didn't get to peak inside the factories at all, you'd be missing that insight into what makes China the powerhouse that it is. Kia ora Gavrielle! We spoke with people on other tours (British, German) who were having the same experience re factory visits. Our understanding was that the local tour guides were not well paid, and the factory visits were primarily a way of supplementing their income (we were typically issued with tickets to present with any purchase, so the guide could claim her commission). The CTS itinerary was good; it was just that they didn't disclose the pre-planned visits or their nature up-front that annoyed us. Plus, we had limited time at some locations so as to fit in a factory visit! And that's the problem—the visits will be on the way to/ from somewhere you'll want to be, so unless you leave the bus and make your own transport arrangements (which would understandably concern the guide), you've no choice about the factory visits.

As for food it was OK, although the "tourist standard" fare was repetitive. Again, transport was often provided, and I think without local knowledge you would have to be the adventurous (and risk-taking) type to go off on your own at night.

If you did want to sort your own transport to avoid factories, take a gamble with the menus in non-touristic restaurants, and avoid benefiting from the considerable queue-jumping/ negotiating skills of the tour guide, I'd have to ask what you were doing on an organized tour. I think the best advice I can give you is to be mentally prepared for the factory visits (we weren't), and try to be philosophic about the group "spreading the wealth" (even if you don't shop yourself). Most of the visits did have an educational component at the start too, and these can be worthwhile; we tended to peel off from the group at that point to linger outside (with 1 or 2 other like-minded folk). I guess you could also argue that commerce is such a vital aspect of China on the world stage that, if you didn't get to peak inside the factories at all, you'd be missing that insight into what makes China the powerhouse that it is.

]]> By: Gavrielle http://www.bioneural.net/feeder/?FeederAction=clicked&feed=Comments+on+Articles+%28RSS2%29&seed=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.bioneural.net%2F2006%2F10%2F20%2Fchinas-history-and-ancient-capital%2F%23comment-76882&seed_title=China%26%23039%3Bs+history+and+ancient+capital/comment-page-1/#comment-76882 Gavrielle Thu, 21 Aug 2008 08:48:21 +0000 http://www.bioneural.net/2006/10/20/chinas-history-and-ancient-capital/#comment-76882 Greetings from Auckland! Thank you so much for posting this account of your trip with CTS Horizons. I am booked on a China trip with them, following more or less the same itinerary, in November. Alas, I didn't find your account when I was researching tour companies, otherwise I would have chosen another company, although I'm not sure whether the same problems (like incessant factory tours) are the same whoever you go with. Can I ask you - how easy would it have been to have ducked out of most of the days with the group to explore on your own? We'd like to avoid the factory tours and the poor restaurants wherever possible, and are hoping abandoning the group during the day, maybe with a private guide here and there, might be a way around this. (I've learned enough Mandarin to be able to get by in taxis and restaurants.) Thanks! Greetings from Auckland! Thank you so much for posting this account of your trip with CTS Horizons. I am booked on a China trip with them, following more or less the same itinerary, in November. Alas, I didn't find your account when I was researching tour companies, otherwise I would have chosen another company, although I'm not sure whether the same problems (like incessant factory tours) are the same whoever you go with. Can I ask you - how easy would it have been to have ducked out of most of the days with the group to explore on your own? We'd like to avoid the factory tours and the poor restaurants wherever possible, and are hoping abandoning the group during the day, maybe with a private guide here and there, might be a way around this. (I've learned enough Mandarin to be able to get by in taxis and restaurants.) Thanks!

]]> By: james http://www.bioneural.net/feeder/?FeederAction=clicked&feed=Comments+on+Articles+%28RSS2%29&seed=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.bioneural.net%2F2006%2F10%2F20%2Fchinas-history-and-ancient-capital%2F%23comment-26315&seed_title=China%26%23039%3Bs+history+and+ancient+capital/comment-page-1/#comment-26315 james Sun, 17 Dec 2006 18:04:32 +0000 http://www.bioneural.net/2006/10/20/chinas-history-and-ancient-capital/#comment-26315 Awesome. A friend of mine is a capitain of a tanker and is based in singapore. He says china is packed with people but he loves it! He says the culture is nothing like he is used to. I would love to go myself but a bit to expensive for me right now! James Awesome. A friend of mine is a capitain of a tanker and is based in singapore. He says china is packed with people but he loves it! He says the culture is nothing like he is used to.

I would love to go myself but a bit to expensive for me right now!

James

]]> By: Bruce http://www.bioneural.net/feeder/?FeederAction=clicked&feed=Comments+on+Articles+%28RSS2%29&seed=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.bioneural.net%2F2006%2F10%2F20%2Fchinas-history-and-ancient-capital%2F%23comment-19707&seed_title=China%26%23039%3Bs+history+and+ancient+capital/comment-page-1/#comment-19707 Bruce Thu, 16 Nov 2006 10:34:30 +0000 http://www.bioneural.net/2006/10/20/chinas-history-and-ancient-capital/#comment-19707 Hi Carol; thanks for dropping by! China was certainly full of adventure (not all of it welcome) and it will be a good year before we have exotic locations to visit again. We're planning to make the most of our time in Wellington to explore the lower North Island—a region I've only ever passed through before on the way to somewhere else. Do you know this region? If so feel free to make some 'must see' suggestions! Regards to Brian and the 'girls'. Hi Carol; thanks for dropping by! China was certainly full of adventure (not all of it welcome) and it will be a good year before we have exotic locations to visit again. We're planning to make the most of our time in Wellington to explore the lower North Island—a region I've only ever passed through before on the way to somewhere else. Do you know this region? If so feel free to make some 'must see' suggestions! Regards to Brian and the 'girls'.

]]> By: carol sexton http://www.bioneural.net/feeder/?FeederAction=clicked&feed=Comments+on+Articles+%28RSS2%29&seed=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.bioneural.net%2F2006%2F10%2F20%2Fchinas-history-and-ancient-capital%2F%23comment-19694&seed_title=China%26%23039%3Bs+history+and+ancient+capital/comment-page-1/#comment-19694 carol sexton Thu, 16 Nov 2006 08:13:05 +0000 http://www.bioneural.net/2006/10/20/chinas-history-and-ancient-capital/#comment-19694 Hi there, great to read about your adventures in China. Now that we have come of age and joined the world on internet will follow your travels etc in detail. Hope your time in Wellington is good. Had your Mum and Dad here last night so able to hear all your latest news. Catch you sometime. Regards Carol Sx Hi there, great to read about your adventures in China. Now that we have come of age and joined the world on internet will follow your travels etc in detail. Hope your time in Wellington is good. Had your Mum and Dad here last night so able to hear all your latest news. Catch you sometime. Regards Carol Sx

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