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	<title>Comments on: Filth, poverty, and free choice</title>
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	<description>bioneural.net is for stuff worth sharing: commentary by Bruce McKenzie. Major topics covered are gadgets, informatics, Internet, Mac, mobile, musings, New Zealand, photography, Project Koru, quicklinks, rant, rave, travel and Windows</description>
	<pubDate>Mon, 08 Sep 2008 18:20:46 +0000</pubDate>
	
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		<title>By: debbie</title>
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		<dc:creator>debbie</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 21 Jul 2008 14:56:03 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>filth is a condition of the mind. what we cannot see gets exposed in those moments when no one can see us. i think filth is a cry for help. recently a room was for rent the mans home was filthy. it bothered me that his sense of perception was off. iasked sked him how he had the nerve to show me this room let charge money for it.it brought up memories of my father and how i cleaned his mess and got an obcessive compulsive disorder. i did something i should never have done.my father ruined my life i as his daughter 
have and always will live in my beautiful world. i will choose wgho i invite in. filth as i see it is an ultimate rebellion of facing ones truth and it is a sickness that is rampant on this earth.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>filth is a condition of the mind. what we cannot see gets exposed in those moments when no one can see us. i think filth is a cry for help. recently a room was for rent the mans home was filthy. it bothered me that his sense of perception was off. iasked sked him how he had the nerve to show me this room let charge money for it.it brought up memories of my father and how i cleaned his mess and got an obcessive compulsive disorder. i did something i should never have done.my father ruined my life i as his daughter<br />
have and always will live in my beautiful world. i will choose wgho i invite in. filth as i see it is an ultimate rebellion of facing ones truth and it is a sickness that is rampant on this earth.</p>
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		<title>By: Tracy</title>
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		<dc:creator>Tracy</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 21 Jun 2008 14:05:19 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>I found Adwoa's post very interesting and will be looking into Diogenes syndrome.  It seems to describe my mother almost perfectly.  She has been living in total filth for years....the clutter and filth and smell of her house (cat urine) is overwhelming.  Many times I have cleaned it up only to have her let it go right back to filth.  As Adwoa, I have pretty much given up.  I truly believe that one day the county will condemn and bulldoze my mother's house.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I found Adwoa's post very interesting and will be looking into Diogenes syndrome.  It seems to describe my mother almost perfectly.  She has been living in total filth for years....the clutter and filth and smell of her house (cat urine) is overwhelming.  Many times I have cleaned it up only to have her let it go right back to filth.  As Adwoa, I have pretty much given up.  I truly believe that one day the county will condemn and bulldoze my mother's house.</p>
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		<title>By: Darrel</title>
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		<dc:creator>Darrel</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 12 Jun 2008 20:59:47 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>I have taken the time to educate myself on the different levels of filth. 
There are some definite skills and  discipline involved in cleaning.
I bet people that are grossly filthy would not be reading our posts.
What a world we live in!!!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I have taken the time to educate myself on the different levels of filth.<br />
There are some definite skills and  discipline involved in cleaning.<br />
I bet people that are grossly filthy would not be reading our posts.<br />
What a world we live in!!!</p>
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		<title>By: SG</title>
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		<dc:creator>SG</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 06 Jun 2008 20:18:51 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>For me, it's been a progression since childhood.  My mother always took care of stuff for me.  When I tried to clean up, I got the message that it wasn't good enough and my mother would just come in behind me to make it "right".  I remember being in summer school and, like the other kids, helping to clean up after some crafts project.  I was sweeping and the teachers and teacher's assistants were commenting on how bad my sweeping skills were.  Even then I didn't get it because you take the broom and drag it to move the mess to one spot and then sweep it in dustpan.  How hard is that?  According to these ladies, it was hard for me.

Anyway, it's was pretty much a childhood of people cleaning for me or implying that I wasn't good at it.  Maybe they did it as a reason to prove how well they took care of me. Because, honestly, I think teaching me the proper way to do things rather than just doing it or laughing about it might have been the best response.  What it did was usher me in to adulthood with horrible housekeeping skills.  I can clean but I always feel like more needs to be done. I'm not good at habitually keeping up with house cleaning, so things pile up and I'm back to where I started.  Now let something upset me and all bets are off.  The problem is, I've been upset for a few years now.

Other things have happened in my life like death and loss which has lead to depression.  Couple that with not too great housekeeping skills and you get squalor.  It's definitely something you live with...if you have to.  As time goes on, it does get embarrassing.  Of course, I have a job, friends, an active social life but I keep those separate from my home.  A few years ago, I just had a cluttered apartment, so I could have company and just laugh off my cluttered place because there was no filth. It was just stacks of books or whatever.  However, now I've definitely got squalor.

In my effort to figure out how to regain control, I found a website that is somewhat helpful: &lt;a href="http://www.squalorsurvivors.com/" rel="nofollow"&gt;Squalor Survivors&lt;/a&gt;.  It's helpful in the sense that I know I'm not alone, at least.  Now those cleaning skills I never learned, I realize just to pop up out of nowhere.  I've got a lot I need to learn and some new habits I need to form. Also, the bottom line is, I need to get myself back to manageable clutter, so I can hire maid.  ;) 

So I know there are varying degrees of squalor.  I think people saying "it's a choice" are making it way too simple.  Some things in life are easy, like feeling the urge to go to the bathroom and then going.  But even a child needs to be potty trained.  Maybe in some cases, at least with me, I feel that no one really took the time to teach me basic housekeeping skills.  As an adult, now I need to teach myself.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>For me, it's been a progression since childhood.  My mother always took care of stuff for me.  When I tried to clean up, I got the message that it wasn't good enough and my mother would just come in behind me to make it "right".  I remember being in summer school and, like the other kids, helping to clean up after some crafts project.  I was sweeping and the teachers and teacher's assistants were commenting on how bad my sweeping skills were.  Even then I didn't get it because you take the broom and drag it to move the mess to one spot and then sweep it in dustpan.  How hard is that?  According to these ladies, it was hard for me.</p>
<p>Anyway, it's was pretty much a childhood of people cleaning for me or implying that I wasn't good at it.  Maybe they did it as a reason to prove how well they took care of me. Because, honestly, I think teaching me the proper way to do things rather than just doing it or laughing about it might have been the best response.  What it did was usher me in to adulthood with horrible housekeeping skills.  I can clean but I always feel like more needs to be done. I'm not good at habitually keeping up with house cleaning, so things pile up and I'm back to where I started.  Now let something upset me and all bets are off.  The problem is, I've been upset for a few years now.</p>
<p>Other things have happened in my life like death and loss which has lead to depression.  Couple that with not too great housekeeping skills and you get squalor.  It's definitely something you live with...if you have to.  As time goes on, it does get embarrassing.  Of course, I have a job, friends, an active social life but I keep those separate from my home.  A few years ago, I just had a cluttered apartment, so I could have company and just laugh off my cluttered place because there was no filth. It was just stacks of books or whatever.  However, now I've definitely got squalor.</p>
<p>In my effort to figure out how to regain control, I found a website that is somewhat helpful: <a href="http://www.squalorsurvivors.com/" rel="nofollow">Squalor Survivors</a>.  It's helpful in the sense that I know I'm not alone, at least.  Now those cleaning skills I never learned, I realize just to pop up out of nowhere.  I've got a lot I need to learn and some new habits I need to form. Also, the bottom line is, I need to get myself back to manageable clutter, so I can hire maid.  ;) </p>
<p>So I know there are varying degrees of squalor.  I think people saying "it's a choice" are making it way too simple.  Some things in life are easy, like feeling the urge to go to the bathroom and then going.  But even a child needs to be potty trained.  Maybe in some cases, at least with me, I feel that no one really took the time to teach me basic housekeeping skills.  As an adult, now I need to teach myself.</p>
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		<title>By: jdplus3</title>
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		<dc:creator>jdplus3</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 29 May 2008 01:56:46 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>I think there are three distinct situations represented here: 1)filth with clutter, 2) filth without clutter, and 3)clutter without filth.

1) filth with clutter: I know someone; they were about to bring a newborn home from the hospital. We stopped by the house and were apalled. One sink basin was full of dirty dishes, the other full of a nasty opaque liquid beyond description. the fridge was full of junk- non edible food, old milk, old condiments. stuff was piled everywhere. a sofa given by relatives a year ago was filthy with ground in grime. the other child's bedroom was so cluttered he could not sleep on his bed. there was old dried dog feces all over his carpet.  another fairly new sofa and a roll of carpet had rotted on the porch without ever being taken into the house. we cleaned the place for the sake of the baby.

2) filth without clutter: another person who may be schizophrenic (has been heard talking to someone on the phone without using a phone) lives in what was a nice one bedroom trailer, bought specifically for him by family. he brought 1 cat, and burns tobacco products in the trailer (we have reason to believe he does not actually smoke, but rather just lets the tobacco burn to remind him of his mother). for the most part, everything is put away in the proper place. books are on shelves, food is put away, etc. However, the TV has a thick felt of tar and dust making the image hard to see. the sink and drainer are coated in brown slime. the bathroom floor has ground in cat litter that crunches under your feet. an inch of dust hanging off the ceiling fan. I cleaned his place, and asked him "cant you see how dirty the floor was?" he said "I did clean it!" I said "no, really, cant you honestly see that the floor is much cleaner than fifteen minutes ago?" and he stammered a bit and said "..nno" and I belive that answer.

3) Clutter without filth: I know another family, professionals. they have a nice house and keep it clean. I think they have a housekeeper and I know they know what clean is.  However, over the years I have seen increasing piles of things everywhere. there are stacks of books and professional magazines in the study. craft books and novels in the bedroom and often covering the bed. piles of random possessions in the dining room which has been rendered unusable. They do drink, but I do not know that they are alcoholics. They have academically gifted children.

Analysis:  Case 1involves a very lazy couple. I dont think they have any mental illness nor any substance abuse, nor depression. At least one of them was raised in a very clean home. there may be some passive-aggression involved as to who is resposible for what chores around the house, but in the end I think neither adult is bothered by the filth and they just live in it.

Case 2 involves what has to be a very ill man. he was once a very intellegent nearly PhD scholar who was always antisocial- something like a schizoid personality type who may be boarderline psychotic. I believe he really can't see the filth he lives in due to complex psychological issues.

Case 3 baffles me a bit, and may involve alcohol.  but, I suspect there may be some kind of passive aggression involved between the two parents. he works hard and is very devoted to his professional life. she is a professionally trained person but never worked in her profession, having chosen to raise the kids.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I think there are three distinct situations represented here: 1)filth with clutter, 2) filth without clutter, and 3)clutter without filth.</p>
<p>1) filth with clutter: I know someone; they were about to bring a newborn home from the hospital. We stopped by the house and were apalled. One sink basin was full of dirty dishes, the other full of a nasty opaque liquid beyond description. the fridge was full of junk- non edible food, old milk, old condiments. stuff was piled everywhere. a sofa given by relatives a year ago was filthy with ground in grime. the other child's bedroom was so cluttered he could not sleep on his bed. there was old dried dog feces all over his carpet.  another fairly new sofa and a roll of carpet had rotted on the porch without ever being taken into the house. we cleaned the place for the sake of the baby.</p>
<p>2) filth without clutter: another person who may be schizophrenic (has been heard talking to someone on the phone without using a phone) lives in what was a nice one bedroom trailer, bought specifically for him by family. he brought 1 cat, and burns tobacco products in the trailer (we have reason to believe he does not actually smoke, but rather just lets the tobacco burn to remind him of his mother). for the most part, everything is put away in the proper place. books are on shelves, food is put away, etc. However, the TV has a thick felt of tar and dust making the image hard to see. the sink and drainer are coated in brown slime. the bathroom floor has ground in cat litter that crunches under your feet. an inch of dust hanging off the ceiling fan. I cleaned his place, and asked him "cant you see how dirty the floor was?" he said "I did clean it!" I said "no, really, cant you honestly see that the floor is much cleaner than fifteen minutes ago?" and he stammered a bit and said "..nno" and I belive that answer.</p>
<p>3) Clutter without filth: I know another family, professionals. they have a nice house and keep it clean. I think they have a housekeeper and I know they know what clean is.  However, over the years I have seen increasing piles of things everywhere. there are stacks of books and professional magazines in the study. craft books and novels in the bedroom and often covering the bed. piles of random possessions in the dining room which has been rendered unusable. They do drink, but I do not know that they are alcoholics. They have academically gifted children.</p>
<p>Analysis:  Case 1involves a very lazy couple. I dont think they have any mental illness nor any substance abuse, nor depression. At least one of them was raised in a very clean home. there may be some passive-aggression involved as to who is resposible for what chores around the house, but in the end I think neither adult is bothered by the filth and they just live in it.</p>
<p>Case 2 involves what has to be a very ill man. he was once a very intellegent nearly PhD scholar who was always antisocial- something like a schizoid personality type who may be boarderline psychotic. I believe he really can't see the filth he lives in due to complex psychological issues.</p>
<p>Case 3 baffles me a bit, and may involve alcohol.  but, I suspect there may be some kind of passive aggression involved between the two parents. he works hard and is very devoted to his professional life. she is a professionally trained person but never worked in her profession, having chosen to raise the kids.</p>
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		<title>By: Jane</title>
		<link>http://www.bioneural.net/feeder/?FeederAction=clicked&amp;feed=Comments+on+Articles+%28RSS2%29&amp;seed=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.bioneural.net%2F2004%2F03%2F20%2Ffilth-poverty-and-free-choice%2F%23comment-76592&amp;seed_title=Filth%2C+poverty%2C+and+free+choice#comment-76592</link>
		<dc:creator>Jane</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 08 Apr 2008 08:58:54 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>Yes, sadly.  The nature of my work takes me into peoples homes and I have been appalled at the state people live in with their children.  These families are not poor and many have expensive apliances i.e. big screen TV etc. Its a shame there appears to be no vacuum cleaner or even mop and bucket.  I'm not talking about untidyness, these are unsanitary homes to raise children.  The pure disbelief is what brought me to this page. On occasions where these homes have been cleaned the residents are over joyed at the transformation and yet as the weeks go by nothing is done to continue that enjoyment.  Its interesting that someone has commented regarding reclusiveness as a behvioural trait, as many of these adults are home most of the time and this makes me wonder more as to why they dont spend time cleaning.  The Dr. also mentioned that people live how they want, however he is in the position surely to see the effects of this through the adverse health of children presenting with various illness attributed to the filth they live in!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Yes, sadly.  The nature of my work takes me into peoples homes and I have been appalled at the state people live in with their children.  These families are not poor and many have expensive apliances i.e. big screen TV etc. Its a shame there appears to be no vacuum cleaner or even mop and bucket.  I'm not talking about untidyness, these are unsanitary homes to raise children.  The pure disbelief is what brought me to this page. On occasions where these homes have been cleaned the residents are over joyed at the transformation and yet as the weeks go by nothing is done to continue that enjoyment.  Its interesting that someone has commented regarding reclusiveness as a behvioural trait, as many of these adults are home most of the time and this makes me wonder more as to why they dont spend time cleaning.  The Dr. also mentioned that people live how they want, however he is in the position surely to see the effects of this through the adverse health of children presenting with various illness attributed to the filth they live in!</p>
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		<title>By: patsy</title>
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		<dc:creator>patsy</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 15 Mar 2008 00:38:02 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>my daughter-in-law will not clean up after herself.  my son will clean, but becomes frustrated when his wife turns around and l trashes everything all over again.  She will continually through wrappers, empty drink containers, anything and everything on the floor or on furniture.  She will cook and leftover food will stay on the stove, sink, table, etc., for days.  I don't know how she and my son are still together.  Her bathroom is a total mess with her trash is everywhere.  Her closet is empty because all her clothes are on the floor--dirty or clean?---who knows!

The only consolation is that she keeps my gandson's room clean and tidy.  All his clothes are hung on hangers in the closet or folded neatly in his drawers.  She keeps herself and my grandson clean at all times.  You wouldn't suspect how she lives if you saw her on the street.  She is school teacher!

Anyone familiar with this?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>my daughter-in-law will not clean up after herself.  my son will clean, but becomes frustrated when his wife turns around and l trashes everything all over again.  She will continually through wrappers, empty drink containers, anything and everything on the floor or on furniture.  She will cook and leftover food will stay on the stove, sink, table, etc., for days.  I don't know how she and my son are still together.  Her bathroom is a total mess with her trash is everywhere.  Her closet is empty because all her clothes are on the floor--dirty or clean?---who knows!</p>
<p>The only consolation is that she keeps my gandson's room clean and tidy.  All his clothes are hung on hangers in the closet or folded neatly in his drawers.  She keeps herself and my grandson clean at all times.  You wouldn't suspect how she lives if you saw her on the street.  She is school teacher!</p>
<p>Anyone familiar with this?</p>
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		<title>By: Bruce</title>
		<link>http://www.bioneural.net/feeder/?FeederAction=clicked&amp;feed=Comments+on+Articles+%28RSS2%29&amp;seed=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.bioneural.net%2F2004%2F03%2F20%2Ffilth-poverty-and-free-choice%2F%23comment-75900&amp;seed_title=Filth%2C+poverty%2C+and+free+choice#comment-75900</link>
		<dc:creator>Bruce</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 30 Oct 2007 21:17:57 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>Thanks for this Adwoa. This is a difficult one, because no two cases likely share the same aetiology. Undoubtably mental illness is a contributory factor for &lt;em&gt;some&lt;/em&gt; people who live in squalor. But we have to be careful about generalising this to the point of saying that all such cases are mental ill. It also strikes me that Diogenes syndrome may be used as a convenient for label &lt;em&gt;some&lt;/em&gt; cases that are merely examples of the medicalisation of social behaviours, a trend that is increasing in our society (see &lt;a href="http://www.bioneural.net/2006/06/08/the-medicalisation-of-anti-social-behaviour/"&gt;here&lt;/a&gt;).</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Thanks for this Adwoa. This is a difficult one, because no two cases likely share the same aetiology. Undoubtably mental illness is a contributory factor for <em>some</em> people who live in squalor. But we have to be careful about generalising this to the point of saying that all such cases are mental ill. It also strikes me that Diogenes syndrome may be used as a convenient for label <em>some</em> cases that are merely examples of the medicalisation of social behaviours, a trend that is increasing in our society (see <a href="http://www.bioneural.net/2006/06/08/the-medicalisation-of-anti-social-behaviour/">here</a>).</p>
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		<title>By: Adwoa</title>
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		<dc:creator>Adwoa</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 29 Oct 2007 02:55:01 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>I found it. It's called Diogenes syndrome (characterized by extreme self-neglect, syllogomania (hoarding rubbish), and living in general squalor). 

Diogenes syndrome, and hoarding in general, is a little-studied phenomenon. One of the few geriatricians writing about this problem, Dr. Carlos Reyes-Ortiz, reports that in about 60 percent of cases the problem is not related to a mental disorder, but to a particular lifestyle and certain personality traits, such as reclusiveness, suspiciousness, obstinacy and other isolating tendencies.


In 40 percent of the cases, there is some related mental disorder such as schizophrenia, depression, dementia and alcoholism, he says. In many of these situations, the older adult lacks the ability to assess his or her environment, while in other situations there's a long-standing lifestyle choice or an obsessive-compulsive disorder.


I can't begin to tell how many years I have felt obligated to attempt to clean, but be hurt by the filth that follows in such a relative short period of time. After dealing with this progressively worsening problem almost my entire life, I have almost completely given up. I try to sweep and mop sometime, but a week later it looks like I haven't. I can't afford to pay a cleaning service. 

If anyone else out there is dealing with a loved one with this problem, please let me know how you cope.  It is burdensome and heart-breaking.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I found it. It's called Diogenes syndrome (characterized by extreme self-neglect, syllogomania (hoarding rubbish), and living in general squalor). </p>
<p>Diogenes syndrome, and hoarding in general, is a little-studied phenomenon. One of the few geriatricians writing about this problem, Dr. Carlos Reyes-Ortiz, reports that in about 60 percent of cases the problem is not related to a mental disorder, but to a particular lifestyle and certain personality traits, such as reclusiveness, suspiciousness, obstinacy and other isolating tendencies.</p>
<p>In 40 percent of the cases, there is some related mental disorder such as schizophrenia, depression, dementia and alcoholism, he says. In many of these situations, the older adult lacks the ability to assess his or her environment, while in other situations there's a long-standing lifestyle choice or an obsessive-compulsive disorder.</p>
<p>I can't begin to tell how many years I have felt obligated to attempt to clean, but be hurt by the filth that follows in such a relative short period of time. After dealing with this progressively worsening problem almost my entire life, I have almost completely given up. I try to sweep and mop sometime, but a week later it looks like I haven't. I can't afford to pay a cleaning service. </p>
<p>If anyone else out there is dealing with a loved one with this problem, please let me know how you cope.  It is burdensome and heart-breaking.</p>
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		<title>By: Adwoa</title>
		<link>http://www.bioneural.net/feeder/?FeederAction=clicked&amp;feed=Comments+on+Articles+%28RSS2%29&amp;seed=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.bioneural.net%2F2004%2F03%2F20%2Ffilth-poverty-and-free-choice%2F%23comment-75894&amp;seed_title=Filth%2C+poverty%2C+and+free+choice#comment-75894</link>
		<dc:creator>Adwoa</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 29 Oct 2007 02:42:39 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.bioneural.net/2004/03/20/filth-poverty-and-free-choice-rant/#comment-75894</guid>
		<description>I agree it must be mental illness. People who are very close to me exhibit this behavior as well. I have tried for years to understand why they won't throw away food that has rotted, wash dishes, sweep or mop consistently. 

The one common denominator seems to be a tendency towards reclusiveness. Most people who exhibit these behaviors seem to have some form of anti-social behavior as well.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I agree it must be mental illness. People who are very close to me exhibit this behavior as well. I have tried for years to understand why they won't throw away food that has rotted, wash dishes, sweep or mop consistently. </p>
<p>The one common denominator seems to be a tendency towards reclusiveness. Most people who exhibit these behaviors seem to have some form of anti-social behavior as well.</p>
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